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Mana/Threat Issues


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#1 Gileneas

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Posted 12 June 2012 - 10:16 PM

I've been noticing that I'm having problems with threat/mana. If I don't caste consecrate, often times my lock and spriest friends pull aggro off of me and give me crap about it, and if I constantly keep consecrate up, then I end up running oom. They said they ran with a prot pally in worse gear than me with no spell power who held threat, didn't use salvation, and never went under half mana. I'm not sure how that's possible but beside the point I suppose.

I have a mana pool of about 4.8k with kings, and in heroics I've been using contiunuum blade.
My general rotation without consecrate is sometimes start fight with avenger's shield, judge crusader, and then judge righteous and refresh that asap as well as keeping holy shield up at all times.

Is there something I'm doing wrong or need to change? Or are they just not watching threat and are mistaken about this legendary green-wearing threat holding pally?

#2 Gileneas

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Posted 12 June 2012 - 10:46 PM

seal doesn't give that much mana back. and if I'm not consecrating and using SoW, all I have is holy shield which definitely isn't going to hold threat.

#3 Keg

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Posted 13 June 2012 - 12:47 AM

try using rank 1 cons

#4 Mofoleone

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Posted 13 June 2012 - 10:09 AM

View PostWhatsuplol, on 12 June 2012 - 10:31 PM, said:

Seal of wisdom , and the wisdom is urs ...

stick with mages plx baddie ))

Anyway epic threat that paladin makes deservers often mana breaks.
Judge crusader, hit with SoR, consecrate, holy shield. You'll never lose aggro. You just can't. Oh yeah, get wizard oil, it's 15g for 5 charges, that should help you with tps.


P.S. Everybody lies including your pug people about having tank that nevers goes oom. Just ignore them.

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#5 Evoline

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Posted 13 June 2012 - 10:55 AM

Yy every paladin going oom exept 25 mans (prot)

SoA

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#6 Kosmonavt

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Posted 13 June 2012 - 11:25 AM

I noticed that the two guys that complained to you are range dps. Did they start dpsing before the mobs walked on your consecration? Before they were next to you? If yes tell them to wait until you have the mobs on you.

... and don't underestimate Holy Shield. It's threat is awesome on melee mobs that hit you. Versus casters it's useless (obviously).

#7 Droodika

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Posted 13 June 2012 - 04:51 PM

In heroics and i go oom too, but I can generally kill 4-5 groups before having to get a mana break.
About threat i have no problems what so ever. I can cast 1 concecrate if it isn't a AoE group and just judge Crusader and have SoR and Holy shield active. I almost never use Avenger's Shield.

View PostKosmonavt, on 13 June 2012 - 11:25 AM, said:

I noticed that the two guys that complained to you are range dps. Did they start dpsing before the mobs walked on your consecration?

If they do as Kosmonavt says they're just plain stupid

#8 Travysmo

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Posted 15 June 2012 - 11:19 AM

you can try using blessing of sanctuary, it does a stupid amount of holy dmg atm which also gives crazy amounts of threat
Actually i am pretty sure i mean a lot. -Devilish

#9 Santabeard

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 03:42 AM

Even in dungeons, you should not have mana/threat problems with the way JoC scales atm on feenix. I will probably make a tankadin guide that's oriented solely on build and spell priority. And don't get me wrong, I know there's a guide made by Egozy, and in my opinion it's an excellent guide... if we were playing back in the retail days of 2.4.3. But sadly atm paladins aren't working 100% as they are supposed to be. Some spells/talents are bugged in a negative way, some in a positive way.

Let me begin by saying that I'm a heroic running tankadin in warrior gear. That means no additional intellect, no additional spell damage and no additional mp5. Just the Continuum Blade and an occasional Wizard Oil when I'm running with a "TPS capped" lock. I have heard of tankadins on Feenix with over 300 even over 400 spell damage. YOU DO NOT NEED THAT MUCH SPELL DAMAGE at least not with our current "buggy" threat potential.

First of all, this applies to retail 2.4.3 as well... use rank 1 holy shield. Personally I never saw any need to use max rank. The main use of HS is to keep up that 30% block chance, the threat part of it coming only as an added bonus. And quite frankly even on retail I didn't notice that big of a difference between when I was using max rank HS and when i was using rank 1 HS. Not to mention that on Feenix Judgement of the Crusader makes rank 1 HS *extremely* efficient. Especially since HS is the only ability that should NEVER have any downtime, and should be up on you at all times (making it a potential mana guzzler when you keep spamming that max rank HS).

Second of all, because of how JoC scales, DO NOT judge damaging seals on each CD. Only judge if they're about to wear off, excluding bossfights and moments when you need a quick burst of aggro. Tho' in dungeons (normals and heroics included) I only do that on bossfights, and not because I need that extra aggro, but mainly just to drop down that boss faster since the boss usually drops long before my mana wears out even if I go all out on DPS.

Third, when your DPS are focusing down targets one at a time, I never had the need to use max rank consecration. At most I do one max rank at the start and that's it. After that i just spam rank 1. That is way, way more mana efficient and way, way more TPS efficient than spamming SoR judgements on each CD. When your DPS are AoEing, just apply SoCr and HS before the pull, judge crusader on a target for the non-aoe dps to focus on first, drop a max rank consec, and use SoW so you can keep spamming max rank consec.


That being said, I usually sit down and drink about 4 or 5 times per dungeon run. And that's because I like to drink when i reach around 50% mana, because I like to keep myself topped up in case something unforeseen happens. If I would only drink when I go oom it would probably be 2-3 drinks per dungeon. If you feel doubtful about what I just said, ask the people that I rolled with in dungeons (I'm Yakuzo ingame).

#10 Bouldahhh

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 04:13 AM

I agree with everything that Yakuzo said, but something he didn't mention was avengers shield, personally I hardly ever use it, I have 300 spell damage which helps to hold mobs with consecrate even when the target isn't judged with crusader, so I feel no need to pull with avengers shield, I just use mana tap, and if not body pull and consecrate, if you are using avengers shield to pull all the time, you are definately going to have trouble with mana in my opinion, Boulder in game.

#11 Santabeard

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 04:50 AM

Well, the only time when I use avenger's shield is to pull is when I have DPSers in my dungeon group that go full out as soon as the mob starts runing towards me (even tho that mob hasn't even stepped into my consecration yet, or reached my melee range). But since I'm a horde pala I just target a caster from the trash pack (if there is one) and mana tap, or arcane torrent at 3 mana tap stacks, usually balancing out the extra mana used on AS. Also, I use AS on bosspulls, but usually mana isn't a problem on bossfights (especially since I try and enter bossfights with 3 mana tap stacks already on me).

Another way to balance out the extra mana used on AS is to be the first to start moving towards the next pack, getting yourself 5-7 seconds to drink and restore some mana while the rest of the group are on their way, to make the dungeon run fluid and with less downtime as possible (If you don't mind "wasting" drinks for just 5-10 seconds out of the full restore duration of 30 seconds).

#12 xSr

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 09:53 AM

View PostMofoleone, on 13 June 2012 - 10:09 AM, said:

P.S. Everybody lies including your pug people about having tank that nevers goes oom. Just ignore them.

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#13 Egozy

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 07:30 PM

hai check sig

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#14 ter734

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 10:59 PM

Good info I like your post Yakuzo

#15 Zelwindin

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 10:35 AM

I thought i'd try and help you out with your mana/threat issues, as I was having the same problems on my paladin until I practiced enough to get a good rotation going.

First off, your friends were exaggerating, it's not nearly like that in reality. :huh:

For a 5 man, you can manage your mana where you will only have to drink very rarely. You should have around 250 spelldmg or more for this to work effectively. Salv your DPS, and use JoW and SoW. All the time. Spam Max Rank Consecrate (having the 2 piece D3 set bonus for -15% concescrate cost helps tons here, perfect set bonus for 5 mans.) and Holy Shield. Use Mana Tap and Arcane Torrent as often as possible (if Horde). As long as you have the spellpower to hold threat with this tactic, your mana sustainability will be enourmous! It also helps alot if you're geared enough (and your healer is geared enough) to use as little CC as possible to maximize mana return from Spiritual Attunement.

Having an Elemental Shaman's totems or a Ret Paladin judging Crusader also will do amazing things for your threat generation!

I can generally run the entirety of a 5 man Heroic using this tactic with maaaybe stoppin to drink 2 or 3 times, if at all (depends on the group makeup, among other factors such as OH SHIT HUNTER PET PULLED ADDS and other such randomness).

I hope this helps! Prot Pally Powa!

My paladin's name is Niniann in game, whisper me anytime if you want to talk prot pally tactics :D.

EDIT: To include that all ranks of skills mentioned in my post are MAX RANK. I do not down rank anything, because frankly it makes much more sense to me to figure out tactics that work with the highest ranks of skills, for MAXIMUM output.

EDIT 2: Oh wow this is a necro thread I didn't even notice ;). But AWESOME info here from many posters. Cheers.